Mati Carbon Removals has made tremendous progress in the last few years, and has already begun operations in India, Tanzania and Zambia. Why has the Global South been the priority frontier for this technology? Why specifically were these three countries selected to begin operations?
Multi Carbon was founded to support and help the Global South[‘s] smallholder farmers. I was visiting a smallholder farm in Chhattisgarh [India], and I saw the climate vulnerability and the potential [for] using carbon removal as a mechanism for [the] transfer of value from the Global North to the Global South. We struggle, in general, [with] transferring wealth from the Global North to the Global South, because incentives don't match. There's something the Global North needs, carbon removals, which is a common good, but [is] also [something that] companies need for their net-zero ambitions. The Global South can provide that better than the Global North in the case of enhanced rock weathering because warm temperatures and wet, rainy weather are very good for weathering. The Global South is ideal for scaling enhanced rock weathering (ERW) in general, and the Global North can fund that. In the process, it can benefit smallholder farmers.
The whole thought process [behind Mati Carbon Removals] was that if we use [our product] as a tool for good, then it can create [a] large-scale, sustainable, market-driven impact in the lives of smallholder farmers. Simultaneously, it can also benefit the global need for carbon removals and satisfy some large companies that are still emitting [pollutants] in large amounts but need to buy net zero or negative emissions from somewhere [else].
Being of Indian origin, I visited India as I'm part of a nonprofit [that] works [there]. That was the first opportunity for me to start some trials and learn if this [could] actually work. Once it was developed, we built a full-fledged ERW system, fully technology-backed, which could just be replicated. India is [now] on its own wheels.
We [then] thought that we need[ed] to focus on smallholder farmers across the world. Where is the most needy smallholder farmer in the world? That [question] took us, in 2023, to Africa, where we traveled across the Rift Valley, where enhanced rock weathering is feasible because of the availability of volcanic rocks. We surveyed a bunch of farmers and realized that the needs of farmers in Zambia are probably the highest. There are other places as well where farmers are in poor situations, but political security, operational ability, and availability of rocks were a consideration [for determining feasibility as well]. Southern Zambia had many needy farmers, so we thought that [Zambia] was a good place to start to create [a] large-scale impact. Similarly, Tanzania was another place where we saw that the farmers’ need[s] and feasibility [were] high. We have other countries in Africa [that] are on our radar, but these are the two countries we started out with, mostly because of the farmers’ needs, and the ability to deploy. We visited five countries and chose these two.
Furthermore, smallholder farmers have been the primary focus in the outreach and operations of Mati - why is this the target demographic for Mati? To what extent do you believe that this model of operation is most effective for being the most scalable and durable?
Smallholder farmers have been targeted by us because they can be impacted the most by this pathway. Typically, we see about 20 percent incremental productivity [increases], even 50 to 70 percent increased productivity [in some cases]. That additional income, driven by this increased productivity, is life-changing for farmers. If you look at an industrial farmer in the Global North, [this] additional productivity is not [likely] to change their lives to the same extent. In our case, [the smallholder farmers can] pay back debt, they [a]re able to buy better seeds [and] irrigation. The climate adaptation impact for the smallholder farmers is much, much greater. Hence, [they are] our target.
Now, the other reason is that these farmers are also living in regions where weathering happens very well. We can actually do fast weathering. Although we have to deal with the logistics and challenging locales and jurisdictions to make this happen, we have built a technology [that] is now scalable and adapts to these challenges which are most prohibitive to operate in the smallholder farmer world.
If we simply chased after the Global North, that was going to happen anyway. Quite a few companies [are] adopting that for-profit and going after that area. If we don’t focus on the smallholder farmers, then they will mostly be ignored. In that scenario, the impact potential of enhanced rock weathering will largely be missed. It'll be a missed opportunity for the world that this whole capital flow from the Global North to companies developing enhanced rock weathering will not benefit the most needy beneficiary of the world. That's what we're trying to change.
Since much of the company’s work involves direct interaction with smallholder farmer communities in foreign countries, what have you learned about conducting grassroots work and building trust with these communities? What are the challenges that have presented themselves along the way, and how did you overcome them?
A smallholder farmer in the middle of Africa or India, when a couple of scientists turn up to try to do enhanced rock weathering in their fields, do[es] not believe it. We give [our product] away for free. They don't have to pay anything at all. They think, “Why is this guy coming from the U.S. going to give me anything for free?” There is a huge deficit of trust.
Also, this is a new technology. Nobody understands it, so they are fearful, as any farmer whose livelihood depends on these two [to] three acres of land would be. There is one crop [that] grows over the whole year, and if you're trying to impact that crop by adding something to their fields, they're extremely suspicious. That's how I would be as well.
The journey to really getting them to say “yes” is to, first of all, partner with existing trust-owners in that area who are scientific enough to understand our model and then will vouch for us. The farmers can [then] gain some confidence. [The partner] could be an existing NGO, a farmers’ organization, or even a government organization. That's what we typically do when we enter into a new location.
There's nothing like developing trust by seeing actual results. We do a lot of trials. [In] the first season, we do a few trials where a few farmers just give us small plots of land. We create comparisons, with an application field and [a] comparative field, doing everything in both of these fields and watching them. After the first season, we see a lot of recognition that it's doing something for [the farmers]. The productivity is improving, as is the soil health and crop health. Then, we see some conversions in the village. By season three, we see a large amount of conversion. Then the farmers start demanding [our product]. The cycle flips – instead of us running after them to try to convince them, they are now trying to convince us: “please, this time, give it to us, because this is great for us!”
Carbon markets have seen continuous growth in the past two decades regarding the volume of credits traded and emissions covered by the numerous schemes, which have expanded from 7 percent to 24 percent of global emissions. What is your perspective on the carbon credit market as a new generation of financial instruments, and how does Mati position itself within this evolving landscape?
The carbon credit market is growing. It has to grow for [climate-focused companies] to survive as a species. The realization that durable carbon removal has to be part of the solution and that we can't just make do with green-washing and lip service rather than doing something about the climate is good. The recognition of that will continue to grow as the intensity of the climate disasters grows. Even though some people feel that with the Trump administration, there might be a setback and [uncertainty], there has to be a general positive trend towards [the carbon credit markets], because a lot of companies are committed to the 2030 Net Zero Targets, and that is only getting nearer. [These companies] are not ready to give [these goals] up because they can see that there is a demand and a realization amongst their consumers, their stakeholders, and their shareholders that this has to be done: you have to become Net Zero.
As time goes by, the carbon market is only going to mature and scale. We are developing our business model [so] that we can benefit [from] and sell into this carbon market. We want to be one of the most attractive and high-value commodities, where we deliver on multiple dimensions of the UN SDG: not only on the carbon removal aspect but also on other SDGs. When a person or a company is buying our credit, they can see the global impact and the scale of impact the credit is making. We are dependent on the carbon credit market, and we hope that it continues to scale.
The pre-purchase agreement made with Frontier marked a significant milestone for Mati. How does this collaboration shape Mati’s business model and market approach?
We have had many customers come in. Frontier was one of the major first pre-purchases [that] came through in 2023. That gave us a lot of momentum because that was a large contract and a large amount of money. We have raised quite a bit of money, but we need off-takes. As we just discussed, carbon markets are underpinning the economics for this model, because we are giving [our product] away entirely for free to the farmer. We don't want to charge the farmer. The availability and the scale of the off-takes from customers is very important. We have utilized the Frontier contract, and we've already delivered on those with Carbon Dioxide Removal (CDR) tons to Frontier. We continue to deliver on our promises, and with that, we are attracting a lot more customers to purchase our credits. We just announced the Shopify deal, a major deal for us, with 5,000 tons purchased, which we will deliver in 2025. Similarly, there are other deals where we will get customers to purchase our credits.
As a successful entrepreneur, you have founded many successful climate-based companies, including Susteon and Sustaera. What about your work there led you to realize the need for Mati? How does Mati’s unique product model compete with the existing carbon capture technologies?
We have to start a little bit further back to when I was a purely capitalist person. I have started purely venture-capital-funded companies in the past, and I was a venture capitalist myself for a few years of my life. Around 2017, I had a change of heart, [and] I decided to go after the climate change problem and figure out how to be part of the solution, rather than the problem. I put all my eggs into researching, and that's when I founded Susteon, eventually Sustaera, and then Mati. The goal is to scale something [that] can be driven by market mechanics and be able to deliver gigaton carbon removal in the next few decades. To do that, my original thought process was that I needed to invent a machine [that] could take CO2 out of the air and then sequester that in the planet's surface or waters. To that extent, we developed a Direct Air Capture (DAC) machine, researched that with various partners in Susteon, and then commercialized that through Sustaera, a spin-out of Susteon.
The challenge, however, as we started scaling and working through the various commercial pathways for bringing the scale to megatons and then gigatons, was that DAC itself is a highly energy-intensive process. There is no alternative to using energy [that] could otherwise be converted to electricity for general use. If you are setting up DAC, you're in some way, directly or indirectly, taking away from electricity because there is not enough renewable electricity right now. So, you're still effectively taking away from a gas-fired power plant or coal-fired power, from electricity [that] would otherwise never be produced. The logic of running DAC units, which uses so much energy in the near term when we don't have excess electricity, is convoluted. We need to continue to build the technology and the science, but the scale-up (for DAC) must be only in small corners of the world where there is excess renewable electricity. Alternatively, it has to wait until we have excess renewable electricity, fusion electricity, or other forms of electricity [that] would allow [DAC] to scale.
With this understanding, I was looking for something scalable today. That is enhanced rock weathering. Enhanced rock weathering scales without any land-use change, and has so many other co-benefits along with it. It can deliver a gigaton-plus of carbon removal credits to the planet in the next decades.
How do you foster a culture of innovation and partnership within Mati, to promote sustainability and social impact alongside entrepreneurial success?
Coming from a background of venture capital and my entrepreneurial journey of the past, we could find people who were excited about stock options and growth and were purely mercenary-driven. They wanted to grow a big company, take it to IPO and make a [lot] of money. That was the original model, which I had come from, and I knew how to attract people for that purpose.
[At] Mati, our purpose is slightly different. Our purpose is a farmer. So my journey and target was to find people who were very highly-skilled [and] had an underlying vision to create impact equally as much as make money. They had a passion for sustainability. They had a passion for actually delivering impact in the Global South. Identifying those people became my recruiting style. I didn't want to hire pure mercenaries. I would essentially hire people who are not purely monetarily driven, although eventually our employees will also be compensated alongside the best and the brightest in the world. Initially, we wanted to ensure that they were not driven by money alone, and [that] they came for this work because of its mission. That mission alignment was what allowed us to find the right character and people to join us. Since then we have been guiding them with a farmer-first philosophy to deliver and go to these very difficult places to live and work and implement our mission.
Mr. Shantanu Agarwal spoke with Anaya Sheth on January 28th, 2025. This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
The views expressed in this piece are the interviewee's own and are not reflective of the views of the HIR.
